1 BEFORE THE CALIFORNIA STATE BOARD OF EQUALIZATION 2 450 N STREET 3 SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 4 5 6 REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT 7 AUGUST 27, 2019 8 9 10 11 ITEM L 12 BOARD MEMBER REQUESTED MATTERS; 13 ITEM L1 14 PROPERTY TAX RELATED TRAINING AND 15 CONTINUING EDUCATION: 16 RESTORING THE STATEWIDE PROGRAM 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 REPORTED BY: Jillian M. Sumner 28 CSR NO. 13619 1 1 P R E S E N T 2 3 For the Board of Honorable Malia S. Cohen Equalization: Chair 4 Honorable Antonio Vazquez 5 Vice Chair 6 Honorable Ted Gaines First District 7 Honorable Mike Schaefer 8 Fourth District 9 Yvette Stowers Appearing for Betty T. 10 Yee, State Controller (per Government Code 11 Section 7.9) 12 For the Board of Brenda Fleming 13 Equalization Staff: Executive Director 14 David Yeung Chief 15 County-Assessed Properties Division 16 Toya Davis 17 Clerk Board Proceedings 18 19 ---oOo--- 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 2 1 450 N STREET 2 SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA 3 AUGUST 27, 2019 4 ---oOo--- 5 MS. DAVIS: Our next item is L, Board Member 6 Requested Matters; L1 is Property Tax Related 7 Training and Continuing Education: Restoring the 8 Statewide Program. 9 Chair Cohen has requested this matter be 10 added to the agenda for discussion and possible 11 action. 12 Madam Chair. 13 MS. COHEN: Thank you very much. 14 Thank you to the tried and true, the strong 15 that's been here since 10:00 o'clock. 16 Okay. So here we go. 17 Members, this is an item that is brought to 18 you before this Board to prevent -- Board to permit a 19 discussion and possible action regarding the extent 20 to which the Board of Equalization can contribute to 21 the development and expansion of appraiser-training 22 program. 23 Again, we've heard today, as we have many 24 prior meetings, that there is a need for talent. 25 It's our duty to fully address the statewide property 26 appraiser training and continuing education needs of 27 the county assessors' offices, as well as within the 28 State Board of Equalization. 3 1 And so throughout this year we have heard 2 this refrain, there is a critical need to recruit 3 qualified staff to meet the growth needs of the Board 4 of Equalization and local assessor offices. 5 So today I'm presenting some items as an 6 opportunity to discuss the options and the challenges 7 of ensuring that there will be a significant pool of 8 well qualified and technically proficient property 9 appraisers to meet the statewide needs of the county 10 assessors and the Board of Equalization. 11 And, frankly, we anticipate this process -- 12 that in this process we will work closely with the 13 local assessors and the California Assessors' 14 Association in determining the best pathway forward. 15 I am interested in keeping all of our 16 options open, on the table; however, whatever 17 direction we decide to go in, we must ensure that the 18 Board of Equalization continues to lead in the role 19 of training appraisers. 20 We may want to see if budget enhancements 21 are required to fully provide the training resources 22 that are needed to ensure that robust statewide 23 appraiser program trainings are offered. 24 We, of course, will continue to work closely 25 with the Executive Director and staff on addressing 26 this training issue. 27 So I would like to open up the discussion at 28 this point to talk about training and continuing 4 1 education, restoring the statewide program. 2 I want to bring back the Chair -- the 3 Executive Director to comment on this proposal. 4 MS. FLEMING: Madam Chair, Honorable 5 Members, I invited Mr. Yeung to join me on this, 6 who's got the training activities for appraisers 7 under his jurisdiction to speak to what we have in 8 place. 9 What I'd like to do is, to the Board's 10 pleasure, we certainly have some more robust 11 information to share about the training program, and 12 would like the opportunity also to come back with 13 more -- more full presentation on it. But we do have 14 some training in places. 15 And I'll turn it to Dave to give an 16 overview. 17 MR. YEUNG: Yes, of course. 18 Programs that we have right now, we offer 19 training in several modes. We actually have 20 classroom programs where our staff teaches various 21 appraisal and assessment topics. 22 We try to conduct classes in Sacramento and 23 in Southern California, some in Northern California. 24 But we try to rotate where we give our classes. 25 With the in-class training program, we also 26 partner with some of the county assessors' offices, 27 in that we've certified some of their staff to 28 actually give some of our classes, our training 5 1 material. We use their staff to do the training in 2 their facilities. So we have that mode of training. 3 We also have a training -- we also have a 4 training program where we partner with public -- with 5 schools. We have one where we teach classes through 6 a junior college, the American River College. We 7 offer two classes through them. It's actually our 8 classes that we developed, but they teach it as part 9 of their curriculum. 10 You actually get college credits for those, 11 and you sign up through the college, through American 12 River College. You pay their tuition, you go and 13 take their classes. Our staff are the actual 14 instructors, they're online instructors. And we 15 teach them, we grade the homework, we do everything. 16 But it's actually their class where our staff is 17 acting as professors, teachers, lecturers. 18 We also partner with Sac State. That is 19 offered -- it is an online class, but it is not 20 hosted by a live teacher. What it is, it's basically 21 our course one material. 22 You take that, it's self-paced. You sign 23 up. It's a one-month course. It goes through the 24 basic training you need to get certified. This is 25 for the process after -- you take the test after that 26 is offered through Sac State. That is actually our 27 class. It's on their platform. They host it for us. 28 That one is free to counties. If you are 6 1 employed or have an offer of employment with the 2 counties, you can sign up for that, and you can take 3 that. That's offered every single month. 4 We also offer a couple other ways of 5 training. We have self-pace courses that you can 6 actually take through our -- you can go on our Web 7 site and look at the classes that you want, and you 8 can actually download material. 9 There are questions and homework and 10 assignments in there. You go ahead and you do it at 11 your own pace. When you're done, you turn it back 12 in, we grade it. If you get 70 percent, you get 13 credit and hours towards your continuing educational 14 requirements. 15 And we also have -- we just started a new 16 program where we actually host -- it's actually 17 online with our own services. And you can take 18 classes through that, too. 19 So we offer -- currently we offer classes 20 online within partnership with schools, we offer it 21 with self-study. You download the material, you 22 print it, you send it back to us. And we also offer 23 our own online courses. 24 So we have many modalities. We try to cover 25 as much as we can with the staff that we have. We 26 try to offer as many options as possible. But we're 27 always looking for improvements and opportunities to 28 offer more. 7 1 MS. COHEN: Thank you. 2 I just want to say something before -- I 3 want to recognize, again, that Member Vazquez has 4 been exploring ways to enhance the BOE training 5 responsibility. His voice on this issue has been so 6 refreshing and welcomed. I appreciate it. 7 It's all yours. 8 MR. VAZQUEZ: Now, what you're sharing with 9 us now is those are people that have been hired 10 already. You're talking about the training for once 11 they've been already hired by you; is that correct? 12 MR. YEUNG: That is correct. Um -- 13 MR. VAZQUEZ: And the reason I -- and the 14 reason I mention that is because -- and I wanted to 15 thank our Chair, Madam Chair, for bringing this up. 16 Because one of the things that I've been 17 exploring, and I've had some conversations with her 18 about it, and with staff, is I've had an opportunity 19 to sit with my assessor, Prang, back in LA, Jeff, and 20 with the chancellor of LA community colleges, and 21 they all seem to be in concert with me and are 22 looking at some new creative ways to try to bring 23 assessors to you, certificated. 24 And it might go through, like, an emergency 25 certificate process, kind of like we had to do back 26 in the '70s and the '80s back in LA with the 27 emergency teaching credential. When there was such a 28 demand for bilingual teachers, math teachers, and 8 1 Special Ed, they couldn't meet the need. So they 2 actually were thinking outside the box, and they 3 said, "All right. We're going to get folks -- we're 4 going to fast track people to get them into the 5 schools." 6 And I think that's what we need to look at 7 here. And I thought -- and in exploring it, at least 8 with our assessor and with the chancellor, they seem 9 to be open to it. 10 And part of it I think is going to be put on 11 us. Because I think right now we require, I think, a 12 4-year degree to be an assessor, right? 13 MR. YEUNG: Correct. 14 MR. VAZQUEZ: So what I was thinking is that 15 what if we brought people in to qualify for an 16 emergency certificate with a two-year degree from a 17 community college, for example, that just kind of 18 zeros in on the skill sets they need to be an 19 assessor, with the condition that once they got hired 20 by you, or county, or wherever they are placed 21 throughout the state of California, they have to be 22 enrolled in a program that's eventually going to give 23 them that four-year degree, so they can get the full 24 certificate and not have this emergency certificate. 25 And if they don't, they drop out of the program. 26 They lose their job, basically. 27 So the incentive was kind of like when we 28 did the emergency credential, you know, it was a real 9 1 big incentive. Actually, I went through it myself at 2 USC. And after six weeks, I was actually hired as a 3 full-time teacher getting full salary as a beginning 4 teacher without going through this two-year program, 5 through the teaching credential program, to 6 officially get a full-blown credential. But I had an 7 emergency credential. And it was only -- it was good 8 for five years. 9 I don't know if we want it -- we can do four 10 or five years. Whatever we think is reasonable here. 11 And if they don't complete it, then they lose that 12 certificate, the permit certificate, and they lose 13 their job, basically. So the incentive is obviously 14 to finish it. 15 And I think that's what you're talking about 16 on the once you hire them, the training would fit 17 right into this. You know, you bring them in on this 18 emergency certificate, and then if it's -- whatever 19 you think is reasonable, if it's two, three, four 20 years that you would give them to complete it 21 officially and get the full certificate, then they're 22 good to go. 23 And I -- and I think it would probably help 24 in hopefully keeping these folks so they don't leave. 25 Because, first of all, you would have them locked in 26 for at least four years. 27 And I'm hoping in these four years we can 28 put a little bit more pressure on the budget with the 10 1 governor to start these folks at a better salary. 2 Because you're losing them because we're not at 3 payment. 4 MR. YEUNG: Yeah. 5 MR. VAZQUEZ: And I just don't see that 6 happening in the next year or two, but maybe in four 7 years we might be successful in terms of bumping up 8 the entry level salary so we don't lose them, and 9 we're able to keep them. Because that would be an 10 attraction in terms -- financially, I'm thinking. 11 So I don't know what your thoughts -- and 12 I'm assuming, moving forward, we need to do -- I 13 don't know if it's going to take a code change or 14 some type of policy -- 15 MR. YEUNG: Right. 16 MR. VAZQUEZ: -- maybe internally that we 17 say that we're going to allow people to come in with 18 a two-year degree versus a four-year degree. 19 And I have Jeff Prang also at the county 20 level working on this, because I think he has some 21 conditions as well to hire them. In LA County I 22 think they need a four-year degree as well. And he's 23 looking to tweak that or change that. 24 MR. YEUNG: Right. The four-year degree is 25 only one way of qualifying. There are other ways of 26 qualifying. 27 But I like your proposal in that it's time 28 to explore some new options. 11 1 MR. VAZQUEZ: Yes. 2 MR. YEUNG: And these are the options that 3 we need to follow. 4 Some -- you're correct, I think we may need 5 to address some of it in statute. But it's a 6 process -- yeah, it's a process we ought to look 7 into. 8 MR. VAZQUEZ: Yeah. I put it out there, and 9 I appreciate whatever you can do to try to fast track 10 this. 11 And I'll work with my Members here. And any 12 other ideas that people might have to try to expedite 13 this. Because I just don't see us meeting the need. 14 MS. FLEMING: Yeah. 15 MR. VAZQUEZ: I mean, I know in talking to 16 assessors, we're not even coming close. Even if 17 split roll doesn't pass, we're having a tough time 18 fulfilling the need. 19 MS. COHEN: You're right. And that 20 legislation, if it passes, will only exacerbate an 21 already -- 22 MS. FLEMING: Exactly. 23 MS. COHEN: -- an already very difficult 24 situation. 25 Colleagues, is there any other discussion? 26 I want to pivot to the Executive Director. 27 I mean, the purpose of this really is to have a 28 conversation about what are we doing to -- to get 12 1 people trained and continuing education. 2 Mr. Yeung did an assessment of where we are. 3 I want to know where we're going. What are you guys 4 thinking? What's the future hold? 5 MS. FLEMING: So -- do you want to -- 6 So I can tell you what I know at this point 7 as I'm still getting my arms around this. 8 So one of the things that we're looking at 9 is -- in terms of training, is partnering with the 10 assessors. And I'm going to be engaging, I believe, 11 this Friday with my first meeting with members of the 12 Education Committee of the Assessors' Association. 13 And through that, we're going to be looking 14 at this issue that all of us are facing, as we just 15 described. So I'm looking forward to that 16 conversation to figure out what's the best route. 17 The one item that's on the table that I'm 18 aware of at this point is a partnership with UC 19 Davis. That's what I'm kind of curious to see if 20 some of the content there is going to give us some of 21 this opportunity to really look at something where we 22 would create a more wholistic program, again, 23 starting with Davis to see what's involved. 24 I don't have all the specific details at my 25 fingertips. Again, the 30th would be our first 26 discussion. But I can get a handle on that, and then 27 we can start to look at, what do we need to do on a 28 broader scale. 13 1 Because it's not -- just as we talked about, 2 since it's not just a BOE issue, we're also looking 3 for the assessors; how do we partner, how do we take 4 advantage of getting funding, etc., to make the whole 5 thing go forward? 6 As it relates to, as Dave mentioned, in 7 terms of what we call the minimum qualifications, or 8 MQs, for people to come on Board, that's not the only 9 way that we get in. So we would also have to have 10 discussions at a state level in terms of recruitment 11 about how to make those adjustments. 12 So it's going to be a multiple-tiered 13 process. We know it is a priority for us. And so we 14 have been having our initial conversations with it, 15 including, again, conversations with the assessors to 16 try to figure out the best approach. 17 The biggest piece of it, in addition to the 18 training, as it links to recruitment is really going 19 to be the issue of compensation. And I wish I could 20 tell you that I can turn that around fast. But 21 that's going to be a bigger issue. 22 And we definitely are going to need your 23 help working with the Legislature to continue to get 24 these messages out, along with the assessors and 25 information hearings, etc., to raise this issue about 26 what are we going to do about compensation. The 27 state's process to get classifications and 28 compensation changes is a long bureaucratic process. 14 1 And so we're definitely going to need some help in 2 that perspective. 3 So I will absolutely know more when we have 4 this -- my first meeting on August 30th, this Friday. 5 MS. COHEN: I'm curious to know, does anyone 6 know of a previous statewide training program that we 7 partnered with before? I'm under the impression that 8 we are -- there's no need to duplicate the wheel. 9 What you're describing at UC Davis has actually been 10 in existence and has kind of ebbed and flowed over 11 the years. 12 MS. FLEMING: Mm-hm. Trying to revitalize 13 it. I'm not aware of a statewide one for property 14 tax. 15 MS. COHEN: I'm just thinking of a statewide 16 training program to partner with some of the 17 issues. 18 MR. YEUNG: Yeah. 19 MS. FLEMING: Yes. 20 And it would have to be at that level to 21 make it, you know -- and to leverage that 22 opportunity. And I absolutely am open to pursuing 23 that, to start those conversations. I've not had 24 those conversations with them to date. Again, just 25 getting my arms wrapped around this level of detail 26 for the training programs. 27 MS. COHEN: So, colleagues, I recommend that 28 we consider this issue as one of our most important 15 1 topics or agenda items at our hearing -- 2 MR. VAZQUEZ: At our retreat. 3 MS. COHEN: -- at our hearing at the 4 retreat. 5 When we talk to the members of the 6 Legislature, when we talk to the governor's office, 7 this really needs to be our rallying. We need to be 8 consistent on our message, and that is the importance 9 to develop a statewide training program that -- 10 that -- that -- 11 MR. VAZQUEZ: That will accelerate these 12 folks to be qualified to get the job. 13 MS. COHEN: -- that will accelerate the 14 training -- the education and training of people so 15 they can be employed. It's almost now a work force 16 issue. 17 MS. FLEMING: Yes. 18 MS. COHEN: So this is a high priority. 19 If you're in disagreement, please let me 20 know. But I think that this is where we should be 21 focusing our energy. 22 Are there any other -- 23 MR. GAINES: I would like to comment. 24 MS. COHEN: Yes. Please do. 25 MR. GAINES: Yes. Thank you. 26 I just want to thank you for your comments, 27 Chair, and also Member Vazquez. 28 It's a critical issue. And if split roll 16 1 passes, we're going to be -- 2 MR. VAZQUEZ: Worse. 3 MR. GAINES: -- behind the curve. And so I 4 think to the degree that we can be proactive. 5 Mr. Vazquez's comment about how we already 6 have a problem. And it sounds like LA has a problem. 7 And I'm sure there's a lot of counties throughout the 8 state that have a problem. So if we can develop a 9 curriculum. 10 And it sounded like, if I could follow up on 11 the program that you have, is it at Sierra College? 12 Is that what you mentioned? 13 MR. YEUNG: American River College. 14 MR. GAINES: American River. Sorry. 15 MR. YEUNG: Yes. 16 MR. GAINES: Okay. So we have a foundation 17 there. And to the degree that we can expand upon 18 that through a CSU system, community college, CSU 19 system, maybe you can take the curriculum through a 20 community college and finish it up at a CSU, or a UC 21 for that matter. But it seems like it fits better 22 into a CSU community college system -- 23 MR. YEUNG: Right. 24 MR. GAINES: -- in terms of what the focus 25 of CSU is versus UC program. 26 MR. YEUNG: Right. 27 MR. GAINES: I remember I went to UC Davis 28 my freshman year, and I couldn't major in business. 17 1 You had to major in economics. So it wasn't quite 2 the right fit for me. 3 So it seems to me CSU has a more practical 4 degree program that I think will fit this really 5 well. 6 And Mr. Vazquez brought up some key points 7 on emergency credential teachers, which is, I think, 8 very similar to what we're looking at. 9 MR. VAZQUEZ: Yeah. We should look at that 10 model. 11 MR. GAINES: Yes. Thank you. 12 MS. COHEN: Is there anything else? 13 Yes, please. 14 MS. STOWERS: I just want to echo what 15 everyone is saying. I think it's a great idea 16 starting at the community colleges. Community 17 colleges being one of the low-cost ways for 18 education. And many -- I think there's a bill that's 19 saying it's going to be free? 20 MR. VAZQUEZ: We're working on it. 21 MS. STOWERS: I'm tracking so many bills. 22 And then with the plan, guarantee them into 23 a Cal State system so they can have that four-year 24 degree, at the same time being able to work for the 25 state or the counties is an excellent tool to build 26 our own resources. 27 Good idea. 28 MS. COHEN: All right. So tangible next 18 1 steps, action steps. Anyone have any suggestions, or 2 what do we do? Okay. We're in agreement. Now what? 3 MR. GAINES: I think we can -- and you've 4 already done so -- ask the Executive Director to 5 follow up and see what sort of program would work. 6 But I think we'll be talking to the 7 Legislature about those legislations that would 8 accelerate, at a minimum, staffing for appraisers 9 statewide, for ourselves at the BOE, but also for our 10 58 county assessors. 11 And then something that could, in the event 12 of passage of the initiative, maybe another aspect 13 would trigger, there would be follow up legislation 14 that would accelerate it even faster. 15 And I think that's kind of what we're 16 talking about, isn't it? 17 MS. COHEN: That is exactly what we're 18 talking about. Is that something you want to take 19 lead on? 20 MR. GAINES: Sure. 21 MS. COHEN: Coming from the Legislature. 22 MR. GAINES: Yeah, I'll help. 23 MS. COHEN: We'll work together with the 24 Executive Director. 25 Okay. Thank you. I think this concludes 26 discussion on this item. There's no action needed on 27 this. 28 ---o0o--- 19 1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE 2 3 State of California ) 4 ) ss 5 County of Sacramento ) 6 7 I, Jillian Sumner, Hearing Reporter for 8 the California State Board of Equalization, certify 9 that on August 27, 2019 I recorded verbatim, in 10 shorthand, to the best of my ability, the 11 proceedings in the above-entitled hearing; that I 12 transcribed the shorthand writing into typewriting; 13 and that the preceding pages 1 through 20 14 constitute a complete and accurate transcription of 15 the shorthand writing. 16 17 Dated: September 12, 2019 18 19 20 ____________________________ 21 JILLIAN SUMNER, CSR #13619 22 Hearing Reporter 23 24 25 26 27 28 20